[00:00:02] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to series three of the Life of Letters. I'm Laura Edrilyn, your host and London based calligrapher. Curious about the history and future of letters. This season we're diving back into the rich world of scripts, letter forms, and the stories behind the marks we make on paper and elsewhere.
A massive thank you to Speedball for sponsoring this season of the podcast. It really means so much to us. Not only do we have their director of Product marketing, Melissa, joining me for an episode this season, but I've been using Speedball tools since my very early days of calligraphy, so their support truly means the world. Enjoy the episode and if you want to find out more about the guest, the podcast, or me, please check out the show notes.
[00:00:47] Speaker B: So in today's episode, I'm delighted to be speaking with Jackson Alves. Well known in Instagram circles as Letter Jack. Jackson is a Brazilian graphic designer and letterform expert based in Orlando in the U.S.
jackson has collaborated with brands like Apple, Coca Cola and Mont Blanc and teaches both online and in person.
Jackson, firstly, a huge welcome to the Life of Letters podcast. I'm so excited to be talking to you today.
[00:01:13] Speaker C: Thank you. Thank you so much, Laura. I'm really happy to be here and yeah, it's a pleasure to be part of this podcast and I'm excited to share a bit of my own journey and talking about the beautiful word of the letters.
[00:01:28] Speaker B: Absolutely. I'm so excited because you've been creating letters for about 25 years, right? I mean, it's long. You've won the Certificate of Typographic Excellence by Type Directors Club. Your work is part of a permanent collection as well in the Contemporary Museum of Calligraphy in Moscow. I didn't even know there was a museum of calligraphy, but can you tell us a little bit about how you got into working with letters all those years ago?
[00:01:53] Speaker C: For sure, for sure. Yeah. Actually, I'm working as a graphic designer for. For 25 years. Only with letters is 15 years, actually.
[00:02:02] Speaker B: Ah, okay. Yeah, Okay.
[00:02:05] Speaker C: I mean, like if you're a graphic designer, you probably will work with typography and everything, like going deep on the letter side of the letter forms and everything.
It's about 15 years, actually. Yeah.
[00:02:20] Speaker B: Okay. Okay, so that's interesting. So the graphic Design has been 25 years, but really focusing on letters in the last 15 years.
[00:02:30] Speaker C: Fifteen, yes.
[00:02:31] Speaker B: So 15 years ago, what was that moment that kind of sparked that interest in going into the letters?
[00:02:39] Speaker C: Yeah, so.
So, like, actually I always, always liked the letters typography. I mean, like, I I remember for example when I, when I was in school, that was before the computer era.
So I remember why I was the guy who created the covers for the school project. School stuff at that time, it's mostly lettering, like create some good great letters, big letters and to do all that covers.
So I always like to do that. So yeah, in the graphic design college I also took like typography classes. I remember I created a typeface in the college. But like, like that part. But I never really, really paid the attention. I think we needed that time. Yeah. So I got degree in graphic design. I started working as a graphic designer. I work for my own company as work for a lot of other studios and I was about like 10 years of working with graphic designing and I was looking for something to recharge my energy as a creative person, you know, like.
Because I was like, okay, I already had my own studio, already worked for several design studios and what next? You know, what can do next.
That time I didn't know exactly what lettering was about that time because it was not a famous as nowadays. A friend of mine from the design college, he actually published something, I believe it was Instagram, Facebook, I don't know where he published something. I about to teach work a lettering workshop in Curitiba. Curitiba is the name of the city, my hometown there. And I saw because that was a big friend of mine and oh, that's cool. What is lettering exactly. But okay, so I thought okay, let me take this class and maybe I can learn something new. Right? Because I was looking for something new in my career. And the poster of the workshop was so beautiful. I remember like what's beautiful Flourish and the COVID and a big letter L.
And I said, oh, that's, that's beautiful, that's beautiful. So yeah, so I took that two days workshop in a weekend. And in fact he talk more about the. Because he work to us, he. He create lettering but he used to emulate like 3D effects, but everything painted in Photoshop.
So most of the part of the workshop was talking about lights and shadows and Photoshop effects, how to achieve that depth effect, that 3D effect.
And we didn't have of course a lot of time to talk about the anatomy of the floors, the letters and everything. So at the end of the workshop I was able to create my piece, my Larry piece that J.I. jackson Alves with a lot of that 3D effect and I love so much. But I look for that piece I made and okay, but I'd like to create something like he did like that flourish and everything.
And so I thought, oh, maybe I need to study more of this. I need to understand more how can I create the anatomy of the letters? How can I can be able to reproduce that flourish? Because like a lot of people try to start in lettering calligraphy because they like the flourish, like all these elements, the decorations.
And it's very frustration at the beginning because you have no idea until you start to understand, oh, maybe I need to understand the anatomy of the letter, maybe I need to start to learn calligraphy.
But until that point, oh, that's. I can reproduce that. But at the same time I published that very geometric piece I create during the workshop in my that time. I have a portfolio in a website called Flickr that time and I published that in my portfolio. And I have just a regular graphic design portfolio with just a few visits. And when I publish that on my portfolio, I have a lot of visa, a lot of views for me that time.
And a person from Australia actually sent me an email that tried to invite me to do an interview about, oh, I'd like to know more about the graphic design scene in Brazil. And I saw your work and so that popped something in my mind as well. Maybe that's something big I can start learning now. So after that point, I have two big reason to start learn more about that stuff. Because first I was curious and I'd like to be able to reproduce the all that flourish I saw on my. The work of my friend.
And I also have this another thing that can encourage me to do that because I saw the potential of this special work that, because that only, only my first piece, my first piece, that lettering got some attention from people from other side of the world after that. So okay, let's pay attention for this. And so I started to read a lot of books about typography first because that was 20, 2010, so we didn't have like online lettering workshops and it was very hard to find calligraphy online calligraphy course. So I start reading books about typography and as much as start to learn about more about typography and anatomy of the letters, I start to understand, okay, so typography came from the calligraphy. So now I need to learn calligraphy and then I start to buy books about calligraphy and find videos on YouTube, some people doing calligraphy and stuff and start to try to reproduce that by myself in my house.
And that's hard to do that like by yourself at first. So how can I use that pen? How can I put ink on that Something like that.
And yeah, so actually I started practice by myself just reading books and by watching videos on YouTube for like almost two years, I think, until I got my first really in person calligraphy workshop with a great master and a big friend of mine called Claude. This is a very famous calligraphy teacher in Brazil. And yeah, so then, but. But then I already have like two years practicing calligraphy. Yeah, that's, that's kind of the.
A big story short.
[00:09:43] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's great. And so wait, so all of this time you were in Brazil and.
[00:09:49] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:09:49] Speaker B: Was there much of a kind of calligraphy scene? I feel like around the world there's little pockets, but it's not necessarily something that's been as big as it sort of got now or I just wasn't aware of it and it maybe it's always been there and we're only just starting to connect now that there's more social media and easier ways to do these things. But in Brazil at that time, were you kind of struggling to find these workshops and these artists who had that knowledge that you wanted to kind of tap into and learn?
[00:10:22] Speaker C: Yeah, like I can recommend these two. There two very important pairs in Brazil. We used to call them the mother and the father of the calligraphy in Brazil because one is my friend Claudio Giu and another one is Andrea Branco.
And so I actually find their, their names on the Internet at that time. And I sent them a mail asking, oh, I'd like to learn more calligraphy. How can I learn more about that? Are you thinking about coming to my city to teach some workshop? And they said, no, we don't have plan to now nowadays to go to our city, we usually take teach some workshops in Sao Paulo because Sao Paulo, it's a huge city and most of the things happen in Sao Paulo in Brazil, so. Or Sao Paulo or Rio Janeiro. Not my city.
My city is southern Brazil.
And then yeah, so both then recommended me to buy that book, the Art of Calligraphy from David Harris.
[00:11:19] Speaker B: David Harris. Okay.
[00:11:20] Speaker C: Yeah. So both then recommend that book. So I buy that book and start to learn from that book. But that time we didn't have a lot of people teaching calligraphy and even practicing calligraphy. But that's the reason why I mentioned these two special people there, because they start to teach a lot of calligraphy workshops in Sao Paulo and then we have like a new whole generation of calligraphy artists from that time. So after that time in 2010, about 2010, so a lot of people started to take this calligraphy graphics Most of the people was graphic designers, actually, because they was looking for something how to do some handmade work and stuff like that.
And then we have a huge community of calligraphy in Brazil nowadays. And I believe now I can mention, like we have like third generation maybe there now, because I have like these two guys, the professors. And then I have my generation with a lot of people start to do calico that time, lettering, and then start to actually live as a lettering artist from that time.
Then I start. So then was my turn. I started to teach calligraphy, started lettering, and my friend also started teaching calligraphy and lettering. So we have new generations from that. So it's really, really a huge community of calligraphy in Brazil. And I think the cool part of that it's most of people there is young people. You know, when I started, when I first time came here to United States and it was talking about calligraphy, I remember the calligraphy community here in United States is huge, but it's more like old people. It's not so. So young people doing calligraphy. The young people start to do like lettering stuff, not exactly traditional calligraphy. But in Brazil, because of these two professors, most of the lettering community in Brazil also are calligraphy artists because they understand since the beginning how important was learning calligraphy, you know, so that's, that's, that's. I think it was a great part, great thing. In Brazil, the calligraphy community, there is usually more young people and then most of the people that work with calligraphy and lettering at the same time. There is no division like, oh, there is the calligraphy people, that this. Larian people.
Yeah, yeah. So that's, that's nice.
[00:13:50] Speaker B: Yeah, that's great. Yeah, it's really interesting because I think there's these lovely communities all around the world and hearing how the kind of future of calligraphy is sort of being preserved and being taught, and we're sort of coming back round full circle to some of the traditional styles. But from the conversations I'm having, they are adopting the traditional styles and blending them with some newer tools or resources or ways to create, which is really interesting. So you are really a kind of king of lettering styles. You're a letter form expert. So your work covers so many. I mean, I can see on your back wall now, which I know we're on an audible podcast, but there's beautiful work with loads of different styles, lots of different colors, quite large pieces, smaller pieces, and lots of different mediums that you're using. Right. It's not just digital stuff as you Said, but what is your sort of favorite?
If you can choose one, it's like asking you to choose your favorite child. I know, but is there a style that you kind of like? I love doing this one.
[00:15:01] Speaker C: Yeah, it's a good question, a hard question. At the same time, I don't know, I love italic letters, black letter.
I also start to love the Roman capitals because after I start to learn Roman capitals and you know, how hard to manipulate brush to create that perfect anatomy of the Roman capitals.
So it's really hard to pick one. But if I should pick just one, probably will be the black letters because I started doing calligraphy by learning textura, quadrata and then fraktur and then they have a special place in my heart because I start with those styles and a lot of people actually know my work because of the black letters. So. Yeah, so if I, if I should to pick just one probably would be the black letters.
[00:16:00] Speaker B: And what would you, what would you kind of use to creative? Would you go back to the sort of tools with like a broad edge pen or are you doing these mostly digitally or a bit of both.
[00:16:15] Speaker C: Nowadays, like I do both.
Actually took me a lot of time to, to convince myself to do calligraphy on the, the iPad, on the digital. Because like I started my career in the visual industry before the graphic design and it was before the computer. So I started as a, as a draft drafted man.
[00:16:42] Speaker B: Draftsman.
[00:16:43] Speaker C: Yeah, draftsman, and it's all before the computer. So I started doing everything on the paper with Ninja ink, everything. And then the computer arrived and then I started to work only on the computer all the time. So when I start calligraphy and learn going back to the paper and inks, everything, I was always trying to bring that to digital. Like, okay, can I do that on Adobe Illustrator? Can I do that on Photoshop? How can I emulate this on the digital stuff?
But for that time, I didn't find any way to feel comfortable doing calligraphy on the digital world like using like Wacom tablets, Photoshop and Illustrator.
I tried a lot of tools, I tried a lot of techniques, but anything convinced me to do that. I started to think like, okay, calligraphy should be made on the paper. That's it. And we can do the post work on the computer, we can make change colors and everything, but the structure should be made in paper.
And when the iPad arrived, I got my first iPad in 2018.
I again, I tried to do calligraphy on the iPad that time and. Oh, that's, that's not good. That's not the same way. That's different. That's weird.
And.
And then I just start to use my iPad to do all my lettering work. Because when I use like I changed 100% from doing sketch with pens on paper, everything on my iPad. But the calligraphy stuff, like take a broad head pen. I can't. I just can't. I try and just can't. And the reason of that, it's because I actually didn't try hard. And at one, at one hand and then another hand.
The fact that I never found a calligraphy brush that I felt comfortable to create calligraphy on iPad, even on the procreate. So I started to buy some brushes now and then, and then, okay, then I can do something little bit better. But didn't convince me, you know.
[00:18:56] Speaker B: Yeah. And when you say brushes, you mean in procreate there is like a, a whole selection of different types of like digital brushes, basically, aren't they. So they have. They look like different types of pens. Different. They will create different marks on an iPad. And there's a certain amount of them that come as standard. But there's, you know, people like you who give us a much bigger range. So. Sorry, go on. So you started creating some that made.
[00:19:28] Speaker C: It easier for you to create because when you get the procreate, as you said, you have a lot of brushes inside procreate ready to use.
But we can't find like a calligraphy tool perfect to do this black letter work. Roman capitals, italic. Like everything I made with. We made with Brajad nib. Like we have some pens to emulate the flexible nib, the, the, the copper plate something. But the project, I didn't find anything good there. So I started. I need to buy a brush. So a lot of people start to create brushes and then there are some people doing calligraphy and doing great, great calligraphy brushes. So I started to buy some calligraphy brush to do that. But I don't know for me, I didn't feel 100% comfortable. Like I can't rotate the pen. I can't. I don't know. Sometime we got the pen put on the screen and then I don't have the exact angle I need to achieve of that brush. But what happened actually that I started to realize that maybe I can create my own brushes and then maybe I can figure out how to do this better. Right.
And then I start thinking about that. So. But all the time was a side project.
When you work as independent artists like me, a lot of people work like that.
We need to Think about, okay, we have a lot of projects we'd like to create, but I need to pick one because just one person to do everything.
I need to create a piece, I need to record a video, edit video, publish on social media.
So it's, it's, it's hard work.
[00:21:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:19] Speaker C: And then I start, okay, I need to do that as a lot of projects I like to do. And okay, one day I need to do that, one day I need to do that. And then that's just one idea I had. Okay. Someday I would take my time and I create these brushes and everything.
I started create just one and then, but it's not enough and it should put more time, more effort to create that. And that was the time when the Apple came to me with the first project.
So in fact I only took this time to really pay attention to how to create a brush. How can I make this feel more natural, possible?
Because Apple hired me to create this first project actually. So that was 2020, 23.
And then.
[00:22:05] Speaker B: Yeah, so, and that, and that project was.
So it was a sort of partnership with Apple where they had an event and you were creating a kind of calligraphic logo, but that you were actually creating the shape of an Apple using your procreate brush pens that you'd created and kind of giving this sort of lovely brushstroke effect as it sort of animated out into the, the Apple logo, which was really, really cool, which people can see on your website. And so after the Apple project, what happened after that? Did suddenly everything explode? Were you already kind of big in the lettering world at this point or was it all happening at the same time?
[00:22:56] Speaker C: So they hired me and asked Jackson, we follow your work on social media and that we love your style. And because of this kind of a lot of big letters and brushstrokes, everything I try to have in my work. But the question is, can you recreate your style, your work as you can create now using real brush and paint? Can you do everything inside the iPad? And so what's kind of challenge, you know, can you do that everything in iPad? So I said, okay, I can do that because I already know I can create my own brush that time.
So actually I create like around 100 brushes to create that project for Apple.
[00:23:46] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:23:47] Speaker C: Yeah, it's a lot of. Because every brush have a little different. So and I start everything from the paper, like, okay, let's create a lot of brush stroke on the paper. And then I put on the scanner, I put on Photoshop and trade that image and Then I start to think, okay, how can I translate this brush mark this brushstroke to work well in the procreate. So I create one and that's good, but change something, that's how we create another one. Another one, another one.
So I have a lot of brush to until I reach the point, oh, this is something good. This is something great to create the piece. So then I create the piece to Apple and then, yeah, so okay, now it's time to put that out of to world and make my commercial brush back to make people able to create something like that. Because I was starting. So I start to enjoy and start to love this digital calligraphy because it was create my own brushes.
[00:24:48] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:24:48] Speaker C: And then, yeah, so actually I don't, I didn't use the brushes I use for Apple, but I create new brush based on that. And then I start to define something, what could be a good brush package to put to my shop. And then, yeah, so I released my first brush package and amazing.
[00:25:09] Speaker A: If you're enjoying this episode and fancy supporting the podcast, you can literally buy us a coffee. Head to the link in the show notes. It's a lovely way to help keep the life of letters going.
[00:25:19] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:25:20] Speaker A: Now let's get back to the episode.
[00:25:24] Speaker B: And so are you still selling that brush pack? Do you sell different brushes? What kind of work are you doing? Obviously you've got the procreate elements, you've got the digital side.
What else is happening at the moment for you?
[00:25:36] Speaker C: Actually, I only have one brush pack because instead of create a lot of small packets like okay, like I don't know, starter, create one brush and put seven, I create a huge package.
I have 45 brushes inside that package. So the idea was, okay, you, you can buy this, this package and you can create that will allow you to create most of the thing. Most of the work you will need to create to emulate for real broadhead nib like parallel pens or another pens. And also because most of my work is made with brush. So I have a huge brushes that emulates the flat brush like with the dry brush with acrylic ink and small brush because they work different from the larger one. So we have a lot of this one. And yeah, so actually I'm now working to create a new package but this time trimulate this. The tools I don't have yet. For example, running pen. Running pen is something I love to work and it's the same thing I don't find, I didn't find yet a running pen. Like I really, really like to. To do in the. In the procreate. So I start to. To create the. This new package but I don't have.
I don't have a date to have this ready yet.
[00:26:54] Speaker B: Yeah, no pressure do.
This is a ruling pen, right? Is this the one that kind of as you drag it across the paper it's got like a soft bend in it and it kind of splatters out.
[00:27:06] Speaker C: Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.
[00:27:09] Speaker B: Okay.
Yeah, I've seen some of that incredible work. Because you can create quite loose letters with it, can't you? And it's got this quite. Yeah. Very exciting movement to it that other letters might feel quite structured and kind of contained in all their rules.
[00:27:31] Speaker C: Expressive.
[00:27:32] Speaker B: Expressive.
[00:27:32] Speaker C: I love that. Yeah.
[00:27:33] Speaker B: Yes, good word. Yeah, exactly.
[00:27:35] Speaker C: I love used that pens. I love to create something like that. But the bad part I can say about that is like that takes a lot of ink and it takes a lot of time to dry to put that the work to dry. Because you do that very quick.
You need to do a lot of pieces.
And then sometime when I create something like with that I don't have spaces to put the papers to dry on my studio because. Oh, another. Another seed, another scene. And.
[00:28:05] Speaker B: And you've got to keep them flat I presume otherwise if you hang them up.
[00:28:09] Speaker C: No, yeah. The ink will start to. Yeah, yeah, like that.
So yeah, so that's why I try to emulate that to create something to iPad too.
But I know for now all the tests I made, I'm not really. Really able to Emul. 100%, maybe 50% I don't know. But we don't know. Like depends on all the. All the. All the new features. The Procreate releasing or the Apple. For example, the last release from Apple when they made that event with the logo I created from that. It's when the Apple released the new iPad Pro and the new Apple Pencil Pro and the new Apple Pencil Pro now have the barrel roll feature that enable you to rotate your pen inside your finger with like emulate the real calligraphy pen. So that's. How can I say that that's changed the game. You know like we already had the option to rotate the pen before that because Procreate have a feature called Azimove and then you can get a little rotate of the pen if you rotate your hand.
[00:29:21] Speaker B: Right.
[00:29:22] Speaker C: But we.
We are not able that time to rotate our pen inside your finger like a real pen. You need to rotate your. Your tidy hand. So got you with this new Apple Pencil Pro. Now we can do that the, the pencil have sensibility that, that you can feel the pressure. We add the tilt the pen you're using and also the, the rotation. So it's, it's amazing to create the, the black letters, the italic because a lot of letters use on the base and on the paper.
Rotate your hand. For example, if you do the Roman capitals of a brush, part of the process is rotating your brush because it is to start with the serifs and then rotate a little bit for another angle to come down and then finish the letter the stroke. You need to rotate your brush again to create another serif serif.
So that possibility of rotate your pen with this new Apple pencil changed the game.
So yeah they need to create something that's.
[00:30:30] Speaker B: Yeah and it's interesting that this has, this is on Apple's agenda. You know these new features are coming out and they're obviously aware of just how exciting the kind of lettering typography, the space of kind of visual calligraphic styles is and how much that's sort of needed. I'm sure it benefits fits lots of other artists as well in other ways. So you've created some online courses and workshops but what do you love about teaching lettering? So yeah in, in your classes, in your courses, is there something that kind of gives you that spark what's exciting?
[00:31:06] Speaker C: You know like when I started teaching I believe the people who really love teaching that's a lot of stuff we like like because we like we love the helping people to learn a new skill and to everything we already learned with that specific topic.
And then seeing the people start learning and start improving their work, it's something like I think a good teacher like to see, you know and yeah so actually I actually I started teaching actually I started teaching graph graphic software early in my career. Like I start to do some training in the companies I work to train the, the team how to learn. I remember that time was I was start to learn Adobe Illustrator for the, the people in the, in the design studio. I already worked because the people use that time the people in Brazil used to use another software. And then people start to think oh maybe you need to change to Adobe because Adobe is the standard model for the industry.
And then I start to do this just small for the team or the company. Okay, let's teach you guys how to use this Illustrator, how to use Photoshop. I don't know and then but that start to make me understand. Oh I like to do that. I like to teach people. It's something like make me feel Happy. And it's. It's something. Something good. I like that. Going a lot of years after that when I start with the calligraphy stuff.
And also because I said we didn't have a lot of classes that time, so it was kind of natural for me, people start to ask me, oh, Jackson, can you teach this calligraphy you do now? Can you teach lettering? And. Okay, okay, I can do that. So I started teaching lettering and calligraphy and actually I started at the same time to teach typography at graphic design college in my city. So I started to.
[00:33:10] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:33:10] Speaker C: I work as a teacher, also as a teacher in this graphic design college for seven years, actually teaching typography and also the graphic software because I love. I love both sides. I love analog and love digital words. So, yeah, so I started teaching calligraphy and lettering and yeah, so I love how people realize they can create beautiful letters. And because most people think like, oh, I don't have the gift to do this kind of stuff, like kid. But. And try to prove that. No, it's not a gift, it's a practice. You need to practice a lot of hours. And then we were able to create this also like me. And so, yeah, so I love this feeling. Also, sharing my passion with another people makes me grow too. Because for every class we prepare to teach, you need to learn to study, you need to think about what about to teach. So, yeah, it's something I really like to do.
[00:34:06] Speaker B: That's so nice. And yeah, I agree that that full circle of you're teaching them, but there's something new that you're learning each time as well.
And this series, we're exploring the theme of legacy and innovation. And, you know, you said right back at the beginning that there's like new generations coming through, so already we can see that there's some legacy happening. And in terms of, you know, the digital world, we've got lots of new, innovative ways create and craft letters and keep this kind of art form of creating letters alive. But is there something. What are you sort of hoping to see in the next few years for lettering? Is there anything that you think that's.
[00:34:50] Speaker C: What we need for the next years? I don't know. I hope AI don't kill our profession first.
[00:34:58] Speaker B: Yeah, good point.
[00:34:59] Speaker C: Yeah, just kidding. Actually, AI doesn't kill anything. We do that ourselves.
[00:35:05] Speaker B: That's true, that's true.
[00:35:07] Speaker C: And.
But yeah, like, I think AI is something we need to think about now because it's something like, I already made some tests recently and I don't know, one year Ago when I tried to ask for e.g. chatGPT duo on calligraphy for me was something very weird, very.
And I thought that okay, AI don't know how to create calligraphy yet.
But nowadays if you ask for e.g. chatGPT to create a piece in calligraphy, it's already have something really, really emulate calligraphy right now. So I believe I need to.
Part of our challenge as educators as lettering calligraphy artists is to educating clients about the difference between AI generated work and handicraft. A really handicrafted lettering and emphasizing the value of the human touch, you know, the traditional techniques. Like it's a huge difference.
If there is a human person doing that work or just asking, just put a prompt on the chatgpt to ask them for something.
And that is something I think is very important because I believe we, as we calligraphy and lettering artists, we need to pay attention for this. And I like when people start blending analog and digital tools. It's something I always try to do because like when I start, as I already said, like I was always trying, oh, can I do that on the Illustrator Photoshop now I can do that on the iPad with Procreate. So I think we can't ignore the technology because they are there. You know, you need to face that. Like I, I was listening for an interview I made with what a name up then?
That's a woman from I think Australia.
[00:37:13] Speaker B: Yes.
On this podcast or a different one?
[00:37:16] Speaker C: Yeah, on this podcast.
[00:37:17] Speaker B: Leanne. The sign writer.
[00:37:19] Speaker C: Yeah, the sign writer. Yeah, I was listening for that conversation and I love something she said because she said she was talking about the, the sign writer from that time that when computer arrived they like turned, turned it back to that and said oh no, this is not real sign painting. And then she was explained that would be so much better if the signer writer start to do the computer stuff because they already have all that knowledge and can put that in the digital world.
But as she said, most of the people didn't do that that time. And so I wish now we don't make the same mistake.
I understand.
I think all of us fear and they worry about miss our work. And for the AI, I think the answer for that is not a, is not a ignore the technologies, try to understand and try to learn how can you put that inside our work and use as for our favor, not against us.
And if you are ignore that now in a couple years we don't have more calligraphy do that.
I don't know people from tech, people from Other areas try to say, what is calligraphy, what is lettering? And so we need to be the first to embrace that. So I believe we really need to pay attention for that.
I hope we do that.
[00:38:58] Speaker B: I love that. I think that's so important. And what a lovely way to kind of wrap up the conversation. I think it's really interesting, this running theme of the fact that you create in both analog and digital. You build those bridges between those two worlds. You've got the traditional type, but you can also do a lot with it in terms of, you know, animating it or creating it in different sizes and adding different colors and bringing it through into the sort of newer, newer world. It doesn't have to be stay as a traditional style forever. It doesn't have to only be future styles. They can be worked together and the same with, you know, technology and, and the sort of analog tools that you use. So thank you so much. I. I think you've. You've kind of really hit the nail on the head there. So if anybody is interested in finding out more about Jackson, you can Visit
[email protected] you can follow and connect with him letterjack on Instagram and LinkedIn.
And as always, I will put all the details in the show notes for today's episode. So I just want to say a huge thank you, Jackson. Thank you for spending the time and talking to me and answering all my questions.
[00:40:15] Speaker C: Thanks so much. Thank you for having me here. It's a pleasure.
[00:40:18] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:40:22] Speaker A: Thanks for listening to the Life of Letters. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow or subscribe wherever you get your podcast podcast so you don't miss the rest of the series.
If you can, leave a quick review that really helps the podcast reach more ears. And if you're enjoying these conversations, please consider buying us a coffee to help keep the episodes coming. All the details are in the show notes.
Finally, once again, a big thank you to Speedball Arts for supporting this season and for being part of my calligraphy journey from the very start. Until next time, keep writing, keep creating, and keep celebrating the life of letters.
