The Story of Kaweco

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome to series four of the Life of Letters, a podcast exploring the art history and future of calligraphy, handwriting and all things letter related. I'm your host, Laura Edrilyn, a London based calligrapher with a curious mind on a journey to connect with artists, historians, experts and letter lovers around the world. This season is once again kindly supported by Speedball Art who continue to help celebrate the tools and traditions that keep the written word alive. Don't forget, if you want to find out more about the guest, the podcast or me, check out the show notes. Let's dive into the episode. [00:00:40] Speaker B: Many of you will know the Kaweco brand as its history goes all the way back to 1883. And one of their iconic pens is tucked inside the pocket of nearly everybody that I speak to. But today their range includes fountain pens, rollerballs, clutch pencils and ballpoint pens. With a focus on design and quality, the Kaweco brand continues to innovate, offering classic designs alongside new and exciting writing instruments. Which is why I wanted to invite the CEO of Kaweco on and ask Michael a little bit more about the story behind this historic brand which so many stationary lovers and pen enthusiasts know so well. So Michael, a huge welcome to the Life of Letters podcast. [00:01:21] Speaker C: Hello Laura, and thank you for the invitation. [00:01:25] Speaker B: You are very welcome. It's lovely to have you here and I'm so excited that we get to actually have a conversation because so often you know of the brands and you may even have an item of a brand, but actually delving into the stories about the brand is something that you don't always get to do. So for those who might not know anything about the Kaweco story, can you tell us briefly about just the beginning, how did the company start? Can you take us back? [00:01:54] Speaker C: I can take you back to the 1883. So Kaweco as we found out, because not everything could found out in the history but they started as a tin pen shop in the near of the university in Heidelberg. And the shop was so successful that they start their own production of tip pens. Not the nip itself because in this case England was very strong. We had the dip in. Yeah, England was the largest country for export for that. But Quebeco make all these little holders in many kind of materials. And this was a starting point of course, 1883. By the same time Mr. Waterman invented the first safety fountain pen and he is called the father of the fountain pens, of the modern fountain pens because he put together the the system m the English word air goes in and liquid goes Out. So with this system, the fountain pens with a storage of thing in the back, first time was good that it works proper. You know, ink supply and writing was working together. Yeah, yeah. [00:03:25] Speaker B: So you don't have to. Does that mean you don't have to do dipping? [00:03:29] Speaker C: You don't have to. You don't do all the time. And Mr. Borman had a patent on this idea. So it was not possible, of course, to copy it so easily, but worldwide, it was going on all this kind of stuff. And one day Kaweco brought a safety pen, but it was 25 years later. [00:03:54] Speaker B: Oh, wow. Okay. [00:03:55] Speaker C: Yes, 25 years later. And they got also a patent on it. They got a patent on it because they had the invented, let's say, fountain pen, which cannot lose the cap because you unscrew the cap and then you had to put the cap on the back and screw it on. And by this, the nib come out. And with this they had a patent, which was really great. And funny thing is, during that time, the name of the pen was Kaweco because the company still was Heidelberger Federhalder Company. Kaweco was only a product, but the product was so successful, this safety pen, this Kaweco safety pen, that they later on changed the whole company name to Kaweco. [00:04:51] Speaker B: That's really interesting. So they've realized that not only is that a really popular pen, it's actually possibly a better brand name to have because it's more convenient, easier to say, easier to remember. Okay. [00:05:06] Speaker C: And the Kaweco name came from the two owners which invented also this fountain pen. It was Mr. Po and Mr. Weber and then company. So Ko sounds not so nice. So they changed it to Kaweco. And this is how it came. How it is. The company name then got Kaweco as a brand and well known. And in the beginning, they had both logos inside, you know, the Kaweco and H and F for Heidelberg. [00:05:47] Speaker B: Okay. So they were still kind of blending those two brands together. They hadn't quite let go. [00:05:53] Speaker C: Yes, of course, you know, in the old days, marketing and advertisement was not so easy. So it's not just to put it in your phone. [00:06:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:05] Speaker C: And marketing is done. Everything has to be printed. So they were very careful and anxious to change anything. [00:06:14] Speaker B: Yes. [00:06:15] Speaker C: Anything needs much longer time. [00:06:17] Speaker B: Yeah. And you've built up an awareness of that brand. I guess. So you don't want to just immediately go, oh, we're under something else and nobody can find you. As you say, it was a different time. Was. [00:06:28] Speaker C: It was a different time. [00:06:30] Speaker B: That's amazing. What a fascinating start to a pen brand, though, to kind of launch something so iconic that the pen itself becomes the brand name. And what a lovely blend of the names as well. It's. They've. They've kind of still got their names in there, which is such a lovely thing. All these years later, when they died. [00:06:50] Speaker C: There was another change because the worldwide crisis was around and Kaweco, the order book was full, but the company made miners at no profit. And the bank decided one day, okay, your ground and your factory is more value than your company. And they closed the credit. And the Gentleman which owns Mr. Koch during that time, owns the company. He lost everything. And the bank was only interested on the ground, you know, and the rest was sold for 50,000 Reichsmark during that time. I have the old letters and I have the handwritten letters from the other company which wanted to buy Kaweco then. And there was a salesman, not from Kaweco, but from another small fountain bank company, know the strengths of Kaweco. And he was so enthusiastic that from every hotel he was traveling around Germany, he sent a telegram to the possible new owners and said, you must buy Kaweco. You must buy Kaweco. Kaweco is everywhere. In every store. In every store with this brand, our company will have a next level. [00:08:30] Speaker B: Wow. [00:08:32] Speaker C: And Mr. Grube and to other gentlemen bought Kaweco for 50,000 Reichsmark. And it includes old machinery. Old machinery, old patents. The stock, not the people. Only partly they fire the people. And because the new investors lived in Wiesloft, not directly in Heidelberg. And the bank, the bank in Wiesloch give them money. And they said, okay, if we give them money, you have to bring the company to Wiesloch. Not any anymore. Heidelberg. So this is why many people lost a job and they started new in. In Vislaw. [00:09:21] Speaker B: Okay. [00:09:22] Speaker C: This was just 1929, 1930. [00:09:26] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. So this is a big turning point for the brand. Really. [00:09:32] Speaker C: This was a big turning point because the new owners, they paid less money, of course, to start, they had a big brand and for this reason, they could make a big promotion. And I have the letters, the old advertisement letters. It's unbelievable. But they send it to 9,000 retailers. [00:10:01] Speaker B: Wow. [00:10:03] Speaker C: You know, today you have to look with a loop to find a stationary shop. [00:10:07] Speaker B: It's true. Yeah. You'd be there a long time looking for 9,000 stationery suppliers. [00:10:13] Speaker C: And during that time, they had so many. So many customers. Yeah, it was amazing. And they built up a really nice program which Was working up to the second World War. Because during the World War they had to make also military stuff, you know, handles for whatever. And so it was stopped the production partly some months or one and a half years, something like that. [00:10:46] Speaker A: Okay. [00:10:48] Speaker C: Yeah. And after the World War they got approvement that they can work further as a bank company. As a fountain bank company. And so they started again. But I think it was already more difficult for them because ball pen came from America. Of course, with the soldiers. [00:11:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. [00:11:17] Speaker C: The cheap ball pen came and during the next 20 years, 45 to 65 business become more and more difficult for the fountain pen people. Because the ball pen. Ball pen was so cheap in production. And what they did. And you can found this in the models from the 60s and 70s from all customers, from all fountain pen makers. Pelican, Geha and the other ones. Everybody tried to make the fountain pen as cheap as the ball pen. [00:11:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:55] Speaker C: And this is nearly impossible. [00:11:58] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a very different. Must be very, very different. [00:12:02] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:12:02] Speaker B: Elements that need to make and not easy to make cheaply. So can I ask a question around this time? So before the war, were Kaweco only making one style of pen or were there still? [00:12:19] Speaker C: They had a wide range. They had a wide range of pants. [00:12:23] Speaker B: Okay. [00:12:24] Speaker C: They had of course safety pants. I don't know if they're in before the world war if they still made safety pens, But I'm absolutely sure they made. They made piston fillers, lever pillars, bottom fillers. They had. They had mechanical pencil, twist pencil only mostly for office use. And they made also kind of gift sets where a dip pen was inside a pencil inside a razor knife and the stamp. So this kind of gift boxes. So there was a lot of side business. And also they bought some. Some products from Pfarzheim. Like four color pencils. [00:13:12] Speaker B: Right. [00:13:13] Speaker C: Not oil pen for colored pencils. [00:13:15] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:13:17] Speaker C: And also some sterling mechanical twist pencils. They bought from poor type with their branding on. So this was the business. [00:13:30] Speaker B: So then after the World war, did it change? Obviously they had this ballpoint pen kind of issue to contend with. What did the range change to? [00:13:44] Speaker C: Yeah, not only. Not only the ball pen. This was one thing, another thing. What started was injection molding. Yeah, injection molding came 50s. [00:13:56] Speaker B: Okay. What is that? [00:13:58] Speaker C: Yeah, injection molding is, you know, you make a tool and by plastic injection you form your part. [00:14:06] Speaker B: Okay. [00:14:06] Speaker C: They found them bankruptcy or the barrel got you. In the past, everything was ebonite or celluloid by turning machine. It was milled. [00:14:18] Speaker B: Yeah, Right. Okay. [00:14:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:20] Speaker B: You would use something to turn, create it from the outside. Shaving it down and. And turning it. [00:14:27] Speaker C: You have a rod. Yeah. And the rod is firstly drilled outside and a hole inside. [00:14:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:33] Speaker C: So. And so you make piece by piece. [00:14:36] Speaker B: Got you. Okay. And then the other way is now injection molding. [00:14:42] Speaker C: You have kind of not a powder, it's more like little pieces, like a nutshell. So this is melted down. Yeah, yeah. And then injected in a. In a mold. [00:14:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:57] Speaker C: And then the good thing is you can take out two pieces or four pieces or eight pieces or 16 pieces in one time. [00:15:06] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. [00:15:07] Speaker C: Of course this was a. Was a big change in the industry as well. And I know a old story from Kaweco. The old owner, which owned Kaweco since 1930, and his son were together in the company and the father said, we will never make injection molded pants because they are not good enough. This is not a good quality. So the son secretly made a mold and he made a cup fountain pen cup including plastic clip molded directly. I think it possible was the first tab with. With clip in plastic molded. I have the prototype. And you know what the father did when he showed him and said, father, here, look. This is invention. This is what can be done. The father took the piece, dropped it on the floor, and with the shoe he grabbed it and said, you see, this is plastic with ebony. This will never happen. [00:16:20] Speaker B: Oh, gosh. Okay. So the son had a little bit of an uphill battle trying to prove, yes, this might be the way forward generation. [00:16:31] Speaker C: Yeah, this is generation. And so, you know, the other companies started early. So they had some technical advantage of making. Of making pens cheaper and maybe other shapes as well. Because you know, in the. When you are drill, you have always round shape. When you make a molding, you. You have different forms. [00:16:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:58] Speaker C: And then I think in the 70s, the wife took the company over. [00:17:05] Speaker B: Okay. [00:17:06] Speaker C: She sold or bring in all family owned houses and all this stuff privately inside. And it was destroyed 1980. They lost everything. Everything. And they had no limited company. Really. Very sad. Yeah. This is. They wanted to keep it by all means, you know, keep all this stuff. We still know how. And all this thing and the money which they owned the bank, it was not much. But nobody see a future. So they closed it for. And they lost everything. All their private houses and apartments. And that was a bad time for the family. [00:17:55] Speaker B: So it was a. There was a kind of big boom of. Of for Kaweco was that post World War. And then it. It just. The seventies. [00:18:07] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:18:07] Speaker B: It just wasn't working or something. Wasn't driving the brand forward. [00:18:12] Speaker C: But this is not always. Not only Kaweco was hidden. If you think about Belikan was in trouble. Yeah, same thing. [00:18:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:21] Speaker C: Family. The family loved Pelican. Then Montblanc was for sale for 1 Deutsche Mark. [00:18:28] Speaker B: Wow. [00:18:30] Speaker C: There are so many companies disappeared during that time. Especially fountain bank companies disappeared because they had not adjusted it enough to. To the market or they did not go in the other direction. You know, make more luxury products. Because short later when Montblanc was sold, the new manager decided to invest in luxury brand and said Montblanc is something very good, very solid, can stay for more generations. We make this kind of products again, take all away of the cheap stuff. [00:19:15] Speaker B: Yeah, that's who we are. Yeah. [00:19:17] Speaker C: Yes. And this is how they brought it back. Yeah, this was. This was designed. [00:19:24] Speaker B: Yeah. And so is that what happened with Kaweco as well? What happened after that? [00:19:30] Speaker C: No, Kaweco really was. No, was closed. And I. I have to say Kaweco was a customer of my father because as you know, my father had his own business from 1960 and he was supplying 10 parts as an agent in Europe to all the bank companies. So Staedtler, Lamy, Faber, all are customers of our old business and still are some of customers of ours. We make special parts what they cannot do or they do not like to do. We are supplying like clips or pencil mechanism or some specialty. So. And this was my father's business and Kaweco was a customer. [00:20:21] Speaker B: Got you. [00:20:22] Speaker C: Of course, when 1900, when 1980, they disappeared. It was not good for my father because he lost some business. But I just started in the company during that time. 79 I started. And so I had no big contact to Kaweco anymore. But 81, 82. During that time I was going over the flea market here in Nuremberg. And I don't know why, but I found a very beautiful safety pen from Italy. It was golden. I didn't know what it is, really is, but it looks wonderful. I thought this kind of pen I never saw before. And I bought it as a present, as a gift, birthday gift to my father. So. And this how we start our collection. Because on the birthday I give it to my father and everybody was looking on. Oh, what's that? And how it's made and how is the function? And then we start collecting like crazy. [00:21:36] Speaker B: Wow. [00:21:36] Speaker C: Thousands of pens. Thousands. Every flea market then I try to clean old factories, old stores, old shops. I phoned old customers and said, do you have something parts? Whatever you have. It was a wild time. I have to say, because sometimes my garage was full of parts, My wife were angry and my kids had a lot of stuff to clean. Of course they got some money for. [00:22:08] Speaker B: It, kept them busy. I mean, there's bigger things that you could be a fan of collecting, right? So maybe it's a good thing that they were small more. [00:22:16] Speaker C: Yes, yes. So. So we started collecting and in 1993 we had many pens. But we were looking for additional business idea. Because in the. In the meantime, we started seven years before 87 or 86, we started a cosmetic production, pen production. This was very successful, very successful. So we had the idea, okay, after some years in pens, we must make something similar in pen. And then we took a look on all the antique pens we collected and we put it on the. On our. In our meeting room, on the large table and put it thousands of pens on it. And he said, what thing, what stuff, what product we can remake which is not in the market anymore. And then we found out it's a pocket fountain pen. It does not exist worldwide. Because our connection. We know Montblanc, we know Lamy, nobody made a pocket fountain pen anymore worldwide. So, okay, we said pocket fountain pen. Good idea. But on our table we had four different brands of pocket fountain pen. It was not only Kaweco in the old days on the market, because Kaweco was successful. There were some other followers. [00:23:44] Speaker B: Okay. [00:23:45] Speaker C: And so we had four different brands to choose. But finally, I don't know why, we said the Cabeco sport is best. Okay. And when we had this selection, okay, it will be a Kaweco sport. But then we had to do the selection, which kind of model we use from what period? 70s where they went bankrupt, or the 30s where they were successful, or the 50s. So forth and back, forth and back. On the end, we decided for the 30s, from 1930. [00:24:21] Speaker B: And the sport element, where has that come from? [00:24:28] Speaker C: The Kawaiko sport. The development of the Kaweco sport was the idea to have a small pen. And in the old days, they have the vest. [00:24:41] Speaker B: Yeah, like a waistband. [00:24:42] Speaker C: The man has the vest, they can place it. And the ladies had little handbags. Not like today, where you can't find nothing anymore. [00:24:52] Speaker B: You've got 10 Kaweco pens in there. Yeah. [00:24:56] Speaker C: So they had small and backs up and they want to have something small. And of course, the first Kaweco sport had not the real characteristic of these eight faces. So it was just a round pen. But in the advertisement, we can see the fountain pen for ladies, officers, soldiers and sports people. This was really written in the advertisement. And one day it was, I think, 25, 26 exact records we don't have, as we have no catalogs out of that time. But somebody invented this eight faces design. [00:25:43] Speaker B: And so just to clarify, because I have a Kaweco pen, so I know what you're talking about, but just in case anybody doesn't, it's the flat edges. [00:25:52] Speaker C: Yes. [00:25:53] Speaker B: Make up the outside of the pen at eight faces. Yeah. [00:25:58] Speaker C: And the very interesting on this Kaweco Sport is this is what we also patented now again. Yeah, yeah. It's the long cap. Very long cap. Which goes over the barrel. Yeah, the round barrel. Yep. And this is the very special characteristic. Normally small pens have also a small cup, but this cup is long because the idea was when you put the cup in riding position on the back, you have a normal size fountain pen. [00:26:34] Speaker B: Yes. It's genius. Brilliant. Yes. [00:26:38] Speaker C: Simple, but good. [00:26:40] Speaker B: Yes. Agree. Yeah. So back to the 30s. So the is. Was the model that you went for. [00:26:47] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:47] Speaker B: And. And that was around the time when the Kaweco Sport was. [00:26:52] Speaker C: Yes, this was 1900. 93. 94. Where we made a decision. We invest in molds. But then we made a mistake. One mistake we made. Because we had not enough money, we decided to make a cartridge filler and not a piston filler. [00:27:13] Speaker B: I don't know the difference. Can you explain the difference? [00:27:16] Speaker C: The cartridge filler is you take a ink cartridge and for filling, you press it inside. Yeah. [00:27:23] Speaker B: The fabric pen is right? Yeah. [00:27:26] Speaker C: Yes. So you open it and put the cartridge inside and close it and then it's fine. It's writing. The piston filler is much more complicated. You have like, you produce a vacuum and you need an ink bottle. [00:27:41] Speaker A: Okay. [00:27:41] Speaker C: The pen, you take the cup off, put it in the ink bottle, and then you screw the blanker to front and blanker back. And then inks, it will be sucked up by vacuum. [00:27:54] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah, yeah. [00:27:57] Speaker C: So this needs much more parts. I think 12 parts we have now in the piston. And so I think personally this was a mistake because even we had not enough money. But during that time, tools were much cheaper than the deck. [00:28:13] Speaker B: Right? Yeah. [00:28:15] Speaker C: And we missed that chance. But the hardware, Schwehler was okay. It was working properly. But we were not successful. Hardly not successful. Because when we. We spoke to retailers, they said, okay, this is a nice pen, but only one pen. We have to talk half an hour and we earn only 5 Euro. Forget about it. [00:28:44] Speaker B: So the ex. Explaining it to customers and trying to sell the pen took a long time. Okay. And then, you know, you Might not get a lot of money for that one pen. [00:28:55] Speaker C: Yes. Yeah, yes. They have to explain what is the fun on this pen and what the adventure. And, yeah, there was no good result. And the retailer, some say, okay, we have already 20 brands, why we need another one? No need. So. And especially the stationary retailers, I have to say, and pen retailers give us a hard time. [00:29:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Trying to bring something new out. You're trying to bring something back from something historical. So questioning why. [00:29:30] Speaker C: Yes, yes. The funny thing was that we then go the other way. We went to lifestyle stores, design stores, concept stores, and they had no pants and they are funny about the funny item. So they took our pants and they started to sell. And this was really. This was really interesting. Wow. Yeah. And then two things happened. One thing is, of course, we tried further on the paper world to find additional customers with additional ideas. And we hired a designer from outside to design a new Caveco diagram. This is a normal fountain pen, standard size. And we asked them, please make a new design, because the store say, with Kaweco Sport alone, they cannot make no money. They need something more valuable. So, okay, we tried to make this. So we made a prototype of a new Kaweco Dia. By the way, it was made by Delican. It was a business dealer. Yeah. We had a cooperation with Pelican and they said, no problem, but they will help us. They produced with us. Yeah. So. And then we were on the paper world in Frankfurt and showed this to some retailer and they said, no, no, this is not a Kaweco. Not at all. I said, hey, here's our logo, here's our nibble, everything. [00:31:08] Speaker B: No. [00:31:09] Speaker C: I said, what do you want now we bring something. You said, more value. And you now you say, no, how this is possible? And then they said, yeah, we bought it. We want the old stuff. The old. After the third or fourth meeting, I took the sample away and said, okay, no more outside designer. We go to our museum and we take a look inside what we have and we make it all stuff. [00:31:38] Speaker B: Yeah. Go back to your roots. [00:31:41] Speaker C: Go back to the roots. Yeah. And this was a very big help for us. And the other thing which was helping us was in the newspaper, in New York Times, there was a journalist without that we know it. He wrote about the Kaweco sport pen. A half page. My little fountain pen which follows everywhere. And this was a very big help because in America, Kaweco Sport was sold out overnight. [00:32:16] Speaker B: Wow. [00:32:17] Speaker C: And also the stationary dealers started to think about the Kaweco Sport. [00:32:25] Speaker B: Hi there. Quick moment to say if you love all things lettering, I send out a. [00:32:29] Speaker A: Free monthly download to my mailing list. It's totally free. Just a little monthly treat from me to you. All the links are in today's show notes. Now let's get back to the episode. [00:32:42] Speaker B: That's amazing. Something that, yeah, you weren't even aware that was happening. That must have been a bit. A surprise. [00:32:49] Speaker C: Yes, that's. I, I have to say on the end, you know, we worked so hard and, and tried all different, different ways that the people take our stuff. So when I think to find new distributors, I was really on my knees and said, hey, please try it. [00:33:14] Speaker B: It's so interesting though that the first attempt to show everybody the, the pen has kind of come back. We're here, we're doing it, we're making it. And it was like, not sure about this. So then you go and do something else to create something you think they want. I mean, it's business all over, isn't it? And then they go, no, no, don't want that. We want, we want the one that's really you. But that's, that's fascinating. What a journey. And there's probably more, but can I ask a question about the DIY sport? Because this is quite a fascinating part of the customer's journey with Kaweco. And I don't know how recently this experiential side of kind of introducing the pens has started. [00:34:01] Speaker C: So the, the assembling method is an invention from my father. Not for the do it yourself. It was done in our production. Can be done very easily, but we have, in the production, we have more, more heavy machines to do it. Yeah, of course, because they make thousands of pens. But my father was always thinking in how I can say a little bit like Lego or Ikea, that you can put this part also in this pen and this pen and that. So, yeah, so that you fit together. So he was always thinking like that. He gave it same thinking to me. [00:34:45] Speaker B: Love that. [00:34:46] Speaker C: So. And one day we had, I don't know exactly, an event or a presentation. And then we had the idea, we put two of the normal machines to the paper world show, I think it was, and said, okay, why the people should not make their pen by themselves. So the people like it, the making and the emotion was very large for them. So then we decided, okay, we will offer this to some good retailers. They can also have fun when they have 50 years Jubilee or something like that. And then we started with the real heavy machines from the production to ship them around. But we had the problem that they come always broken back because the weight, you know, and the transportation was not very good for the machines. So we invented then lighter ones, also cheaper ones, so that everybody can afford from our distributors to buy more and have more sets and then to give them out. And what we, what we found is that, you know, fountain pens or handwriting is not in the focus anymore of the people today. We wake up and we take a look in our smartphone. So in the past, you know, when you put your clothes on, you check if you have your pen inside. Today it's the smartphone. Absolutely. Our idea is always how we can bring back the attention to the pen or to the pen industry themselves. Because also the large companies like Montblanc or Marker do not advertisement anymore. You see any advertisement from them. You know, it disappeared. Yeah, it really disappeared. Yeah. Sometimes I'm a little bit nervous about that situation when the market leader with such a lot of money behind and sells, does not go in the public anymore. TV magazines. Yeah. Become less and less. [00:37:09] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:37:10] Speaker C: And this is why we concentrate also on that, how we can bring people back in the store to give them additional view back to the pension. [00:37:23] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I love that. And I think you're so right. It does really remind me of that kind of the LEGO building experience and that sense of joy that you've created something and to be able to do that, to, you know, come across that moment in an event where you're sort of maybe looking at pens or you are a distributor or retailer and you're thinking, what do I want to know? That there is an additional level to the pen process, the pen making process. It's all about making and creating ultimately, isn't it? The lines on the paper, it's the ink in the cartridge, it's the mechanism and how this flows from your hand to the paper and all of that. So to be able to build that experience in for customers, I think is just incredible. Yeah. And it's a lovely thing to take, take away. You cherish the pen more, you use it more probably because you've got more attachment to it. There's just this real sense of connection, which again, is a lovely thing to be able to offer through it, through something so small and innocent. You know, it's a lovely thing. [00:38:30] Speaker C: Also as a gift, you know, when you do this and you make it as a gift to your boyfriend, girlfriend. Yeah, wife, whatever, then it's this. You can say, okay, I assemble it by myself. Yes, it's for you. [00:38:45] Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah, yeah. That's lovely. And so Can I ask you in terms of the future of Kaweco and you've touched on the kind of wider pen industry and where that's going, what's your sort of. What's your hope? What are you most excited about? [00:39:02] Speaker C: I really. I really hope that the pen industry will have attention in future because I say always we have two fronts where we are attacked. So one front is the digital the computer, and the other front is China. Because the prices. [00:39:25] Speaker B: Yes, yeah. The challenges. [00:39:28] Speaker C: The challenges. And I always wondering when the people in the governments which take also care of the schools. You know, I don't know what is in England, what kind of part of government, but in Germany we had this direction. Okay. Now we do not more handwriting, we use a tablet. And I'm really afraid about that. Yeah. Because in some other countries to go back already, I think in Sweden, Finland and Norway, no more tablet, they go already back to handwriting. Yes. Because they said with the normal handwriting, the connection in the brain is much bigger than only by the computer. So. And I can only speak about my experience, what I personally do, because this is how I manage my business. This is how I develop or design my products. I use a pencil and I use a fountain pen and this I use daily. Yeah. So I sketch my products and only the next step, I give it to the technician which makes a technical drawing. And for me, this, the connection with the paper, this is really the flow out from inner, from my inside to that. So this is. Normally I cannot do this on the computer. I don't know why it is. I tried it. I have only digital steel and everything, but it's not the same for me. It's not the same. I tried it. Maybe I'm too old or. [00:41:15] Speaker B: I don't think so. I think you're just more aware that it's better by hand to paper to. There's. You're cutting out a digital element, aren't you? So there is. Yeah. It makes sense that that connection is enhanced. [00:41:29] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:41:29] Speaker B: I really hope that it changes direction as well. And. And as you say, there are countries already doing it and there are people who are leading the way. So I hope that, you know, we all become part of this and I think there is this resurgence and kind of rediscovery of pens, whether they're historical designs or elements or kind of functions, but there's. There's this real desire to get back to something true and real and hand felt. So. Yeah, I hope. I hope it really does. It really does come back to that. I think it's Exciting. [00:42:05] Speaker C: I. In general, I'm positive because when I see when we started, there was really no in the market today. Maybe we have hundred different pocket pens in the market. And I think what Kaweco did already the last 10, 15 years is that young generations and new starters use defunct pen. And this is what we see in the, in the letters where we get its feedback. When they first time bought a pen from us, and then they fall in love and they send us sometimes letters and drawings and sketches. And they said, first time I had a fountain pen in my life. It's absolutely. Yeah, it's great. We have fun. So. And for me, this is a hope because we started. We started how I say, additional market for the pen industry. This is what I'm proud of it. Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. Because Montblanc has now a pocket and when you see small one. Yeah. How many other ones start with pocket pants? So. [00:43:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:19] Speaker C: But there's only one Kaweco Sport. Only one. [00:43:22] Speaker B: Only one. Absolutely. And, and also, what a, What a huge compliment. You had those challenges at the beginning and you could have given up, you know, you could have taken that as fountain pens. No more, you know, pocket fountain pen. Definitely not. The, the, the industry just isn't ready for it. It doesn't want it. And you didn't. You found a way. And that's. That's inspiring. [00:43:46] Speaker C: That's, that's, that was really a time our cosmetic business was so well running so well. It was 9, 1998. And that there's also a nice story for that because Manufactum, you know, Manufactum, I think in England is not. It's chain selling good products from the old days. [00:44:14] Speaker B: Okay. [00:44:15] Speaker C: So. And the purchaser, he loved Kaweco. And when we said we maybe give up because we have not enough orders. And he was phoning me and he said, Mr. Goodballet, you cannot give up. This is impossible. What is the minimum you need for your production? I said, I need minimum 3000 sets as an order from you. And then I will go on. Then I take on my stock. And then he said, okay, we make the deal, I will buy the set. And then we keep going on. [00:44:48] Speaker B: That's incredible. So that one conversation, that one turning point, that one moment where someone believed in you. [00:44:55] Speaker C: Where. Yes. Where I was really shaky. I said, maybe it's not the right time. But he loved it and he believed in all this merchandise to still today when it's something very solid and can even through generations. Yeah. And hold for more generations then it is a very good product and they are very successful with their stores. [00:45:22] Speaker B: That's amazing. Yeah, that's great. Oh, I love that story. Well, I'm going to throw you a completely different question now just to keep you on your toes. So this series, we're asking everybody a slightly challenging question. What is your favorite letter of the Alphabet and why? This is K. Oh, Michael, why would that be? [00:45:48] Speaker C: This is because Kaweco, I write so often so that it's a little bit like calligraphy already. [00:45:55] Speaker B: Beautiful. [00:45:56] Speaker C: And this is like a music, you know, you can really write like music. So this is fun. [00:46:03] Speaker B: I love that. I love that. And I wouldn't have had it any other way. I would have kept asking the question until we got the K out of you. [00:46:09] Speaker C: When I, when, when, when I got your question, you know, I really thought, okay, it's not my name because my, when I sign my name, it's like everybody says, this is like up and down. Yeah. Like a fiber. So in, in that case, because on, on my sketches and very often when I have nothing to do, you know, in a meeting or so, I listen and I, I write Kaweco in all to waste. And this fine calligraphy handwriting letter. [00:46:39] Speaker B: I love that. I love that. That's lovely. Because often people have those little doodles that they do in meetings. It's always you come back to the same one because there's a sort of connection to it. I love that we have to get a photo of one of your notebooks with all those. [00:46:53] Speaker C: Okay. [00:46:56] Speaker B: But Michael, thank you so much. So if people want to find out more about Kaweco, they can visit. Obviously there's Kawaii Kaweco hyphen pen dot com. But there's also Studio Pens who are based in the UK as well. So StudioPens.com and they can connect with the UK team on Instagram and LinkedIn. Studio Pens. And then there's the brand team who are Kaweco Germany. I'm saying a lot of information, but we're going to put all the links and all the details in the show notes. But yeah, thank you so much. Is there anything else? [00:47:27] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Also, if some people have question because they have an old Kaweco pen at home, they can write me an email through our official email address. I will answer to everyone. To everyone, I promise. This is what I always do. You know, we have so nice stories that people got from the grandfather, some pen and they want to know how old it is exactly and so on. So we help everyone if it is possible Amazing. [00:48:03] Speaker B: You're not just a collector of pens, you're a collector of stories and memories and everything. [00:48:09] Speaker C: Thank you. [00:48:11] Speaker B: Thank you so much for joining me and thank you for being part of the podcast and being on the Life of Letters, because it's super special to have you on here. So thank you. Thank you for talking to me today. Michael. [00:48:22] Speaker C: The last word. Now, I found the word what I missed from the beginning. [00:48:27] Speaker B: Oh, brilliant. [00:48:27] Speaker C: Capillarity system. Mr. Waterman. Yeah. Together. Capillarity system and the nib. So. And I was missing this word. I use it daily and it was gone. [00:48:41] Speaker B: It's brilliant. I almost want people to listen to the whole episode so that they get to find out what the missing word is. [00:48:48] Speaker C: Okay. It was a trick. [00:48:51] Speaker B: What? Say the word again. [00:48:54] Speaker C: Capillarity system. [00:48:55] Speaker B: Capillarity system. [00:48:57] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:48:58] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what he invented. [00:49:02] Speaker C: No, he put together. It was existing. You have this in flowers, when you put, how you say, drink a tube, this little tube, when you put it in the water or in your liquid, it goes up, Right? What is in the tube is higher. [00:49:19] Speaker B: Yes. [00:49:20] Speaker C: This is capillarity system. [00:49:22] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness. I've learned so much. [00:49:24] Speaker C: Yes. And he put together that if liquid should come out of a small tube. Yeah. You need air go in first, otherwise nothing come out. So. And this balance between air in and liquid out makes the ink control on a fountain pen together with the nib. [00:49:50] Speaker B: Got you. Got you. And this was where the safety fountain pen came in. [00:49:56] Speaker C: This safety pen was the first one with this, and they call it safety because it was the first time that someone controlled the ink flow. Really? Better. [00:50:07] Speaker B: Yeah. My goodness, what a roller coaster. Thank you so much, Michael. [00:50:12] Speaker C: Laura also. Thank you. [00:50:14] Speaker B: Thank you, Michael. [00:50:17] Speaker A: Thanks so much for listening. This series would not be possible without my producer, Heidi Cullip, and kindly supported by Speedball Art, champions of creativity, connection and craftsmanship. If you've enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review or share it with a fellow letter lover. Until next time, keep listening, keep creating and keep celebrating the life of letters.