Preserving the Art of Calligraphy in India

[00:00:02] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to series three of the Life of Letters. I'm Laura Edrilyn, your host and London based calligrapher. Curious about the history and future of letters. This season we're diving back into the rich world of scripts, letter forms and the stories behind the marks we make on paper and elsewhere. A massive thank you to Speedball for sponsoring this season of the podcast. It really means so much to us. Not only do we have their Director of Product marketing, Melissa, joining me for an episode this season, but I've been using Speedball tools since my very early days of calligraphy, so their support truly means the world. Enjoy the episode and if you want to find out more about the guest, the podcast or me, please check out. [00:00:43] Speaker B: The show notes in today's episode. I'm delighted to be speaking with Raginita Gupta. Raginita is the founder and Managing Director of the Calligraphy Foundation, a non profit organization based in India, and is a calligrapher herself too. She embarked on a journey as a calligrapher in 2017 and with unwavering passion seized opportunities to integrate calligraphy into India's education system. Today, she's looking back on a trailblazing path, proud to have made a mark and inspiring new generations of artists. Ragintha, firstly, a huge welcome to the Life of Letters podcast. I'm so excited to be talking to you today. [00:01:25] Speaker C: Thank you Laura for having me on the Life of Letter podcast. I'm thrilled to share my journey and the mission of the Calligraphy foundation with your audience. As an artist and educator, I've always been passionate about the beauty of letters and the power of calligraphy to inspire creativity and self expression. [00:01:46] Speaker B: Oh Raginita, it's lovely to talk to you and I know we've been planning this a while, but what I really wanted to ask you straight away was, you know, you have an incredible program and a community that you have created and you're really bringing the traditional calligraphy into the hands of future generations. There's some beautiful calligraphy on the website as well. Sharing lots of the mission and the goals for the foundation. One being preserving the art of beautiful writing. Is this kind of what you set out to do? [00:02:20] Speaker C: Yes, preserving the art of beautiful writing is at the heart of our mission. When I started calligraphy journey in 2017, I realized that there was a huge gap in calligraphy education in India. I really feel overwhelmed sometimes that the way we have got recognition in India, it's good. [00:02:43] Speaker B: That's great. And so do you have lots of partners that recognize the Importance of this work and then contribute to the foundation. How is it funded? Because it's a huge amount of work running the foundation. [00:02:59] Speaker C: So it's a self sustaining foundation now. So we find we are not funded by anybody else. But yes, through our online courses, workshop and sales from our online shop which we have created for the students or maybe educators. So I love guiding people for products and everything. So that is how we are getting funds. And yes, we are getting support of the. Sometimes we are getting support of the government, but government in sense of. We are collaborating with them with their many venues or maybe some other facilities. But not as a fund. Yes, till now, not as a fund. So we are doing like that. [00:03:43] Speaker B: Yeah, that makes sense. So you've got events and shop and lots of different streams to bring in the money to support the foundation yourself. That's incredible. And your courses are all about sort of fostering creativity within communities. Which communities are you really trying to reach? Who are the people who are joining your memberships? [00:04:08] Speaker C: Laura, to be honest, our courses are designed to develop creativity within diverse communities. So we are working with the schools, colleges, art enthusiasts, different type of people in India we are working with. And our members come from various backgrounds, ages and professionals. [00:04:29] Speaker B: That's incredible. So it's not. Yeah, you're. You're working with lots of different communities, lots of diverse groups of people and different educational journeys. [00:04:39] Speaker C: Right. [00:04:39] Speaker B: So there's some that are coming up as younger children, maybe young adults and then you've got the older generations, maybe professionals or people who have already seen. [00:04:49] Speaker C: So these days in India design institutions are calling us to like give calligraphy classes to the students there. So generally bachelor of design student, I mean design students, specifically fine arts students, they are learning through our courses these days. And in India we have one more thing like in government also we have manuscripts department so we are working with them as well. So they are also one of the source where we are teaching. So in right now I can't say that. I mean it's a huge, I mean there's a huge number of workshops. But yes, on some other side I would say in future we will get those opportunities in the schools as well because we have come up with a course for school students like 8 to 16 years age student. So I'm hoping that this course will help school students in developing their sense for calligraphy from childhood only. [00:05:47] Speaker B: Yeah, that's lovely. And something that maybe wasn't there before. [00:05:51] Speaker C: Yeah, right, you're right. [00:05:53] Speaker B: And with the manuscripts that the, the government need to create are these things like Important documents and certificates and things where you need a sort of calligraphic hand to create them. [00:06:06] Speaker C: We need to recreate some time. We need to preserve them. I mean, the older one, which we have in the archives, so that kind of jobs they do. [00:06:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Incredible. And it means that they know exactly where to go to get the best people doing it, because I guess as well, you. It's there. There could be lots of workshops and courses out there, but you. What the foundation is able to do is give it a kind of high standard. And. [00:06:34] Speaker C: And yeah, somewhere with the technical knowledge, you can say here. I mean, if you will be having technical knowledge of the script, it will be easier to understand the script which they have written in the manuscript, or maybe the tool or maybe this style they are opting there. Because as calligrapher, we know the techniques, which angle, which nib, which ink, which paper. We can. We can easily understand that part. So it is. It is difficult for those who are not aware with the terms of, like these calligraphy terms. [00:07:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:06] Speaker C: Which is available. I mean, which we learn in our classes generally. So that is how we can. We are like guiding them or maybe. I mean, we can. We are supporting them in that sense. [00:07:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:19] Speaker C: So that is how it is. [00:07:21] Speaker B: Incredible. And you talked about the sort of styles and the different scripts because, I mean, really, there are so many. We were talking briefly before this that we both have a. A love for copper plate. But what. What are the different styles? And. And I'm assuming it's not just an English Alphabet. Do you create and teach in beautiful Indian scripts, too? [00:07:47] Speaker C: Yeah, we teaches a various style of calligraphy, including brush, pen, pointed pen, broad edge, and England scripts too, because, as you know, I mean, in India we have so many scripts already, some ancient, some Indian. So we have so many scripts. I think more than scripts we have in India. [00:08:06] Speaker B: More than how many? [00:08:07] Speaker C: 32. [00:08:08] Speaker B: 32. [00:08:09] Speaker C: Yes, yes, we do have that and more than that, in fact. So we also offer course in traditional modern Indian scripts. Our approach is comprehensive, ensuring that students gain a deeper understanding of calligraphy regardless of the script or language. So that is how we are focused on technical aspect of calligraphy in India. And like, we are the only organization in India who's working on this four subject as a like whole. Here nobody else is doing it as a. No institution is there like that. [00:08:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:47] Speaker C: So. [00:08:48] Speaker B: Yeah, that's incredible though, because you're bridging the gaps, aren't you? Because that's something that would be very difficult for somebody like me to try and teach anything which where people have no knowledge of English English and I don't have any knowledge of their language. So what you're creating is a space where you can not only teach the calligraphy side, but you're incorporating language development and connections through scripts as well. Because with these different Indian scripts are there similarities in terms of like is it easy to once you know one, you can do another or is it really starting from scratch every time you learn a new script? [00:09:32] Speaker C: So in copperplate as all we all understand that in minuscules we work with the small ovals and with minuscule we work on, with the big ovals. So when I was working on Devnagari's script, that's an Indian Hindi script, I tried to incorporate some of the, I mean technical part of copperplate in Devnagari script here. I mean I it there is a difference. Copper plate is with the pointed pen and Devnagari is with the broad edge kind of pen here. [00:10:01] Speaker B: Okay. [00:10:02] Speaker C: So but yes, I'm able to do some technical similarities I would say here. So not only me, I mean as a foundation, we are the team who teaches and we teach various styles of calligraphy including brush pen, pointed pen, broad edge and Indian scripts too. So we have, we have a variety of scripts here in India. And I mean, I mean I must mention one name here. I mean recently I found one story at if you know the artist, Philip Glask, he's a broad edge artist if I'm not wrong. He does for broad edge actually. So I have taken personally few classes of from him and I saw Devnagiri script in his Instagram feed. So I was surprised how he's doing it as he is technical with the script. In spite of not knowing the language, he was able to do the script beautifully. I was surprised as an Indian, as a Deepnagari calligrapher, I was surprised how Philip is doing that script. So point is when you know technical aspect of a script, of scripts basically. So if you know how to do broad edge, how to do copper, pleat or maybe any other script, generally you try to pick up the technical part of the script and I mean you can easily understand the tool which they are using. You can easily understand the paper, ink, nib, everything you will be able to figure out. And then you start looking at the second aspect of it, the angles, the proportion of the letters, you start looking at those parameters of the script. So I think technical understanding with the scripts takes you to another, another level. Right? So yes, if you learn script through some technical understanding, you will be Able to figure it out how this. But yes, through a mentor, it is easy. [00:12:09] Speaker B: It's great as well. I think the fact that you offer so many different workshops and so many different courses and so many different scripts and I'm. I guess that's something that lots of calligraphers are kind of encouraged to do once, you know, one, like have a go at another one. Even if it means, you know, the, the huge difference between kind of a soft copper plate with the ovals like we talked about and versus the kind of more angular script with a broad edge pen. Yeah, I think, I think it's a. It's a lovely thing to be able to provide lots of different ways of learning. And I guess students can gain much more confidence with their penmanship or creativity, whether it's creating the exact traditional style or maybe their own version. Do you find that people learn lots of different styles or do they come back from the same one? [00:13:09] Speaker C: Sometimes it happens. They learn so many things, but they stuck at one. Like as we choose our dibs. Also we start with the Koji every dip we try. I mean, possible way. But yes, we stuck at the last. We stuck at the one. So yes, I mean it, it happens sometimes. Just like. I mean I do brush pen and copper plate these. I mean I've learned so many scripts, but somehow I am stuck to that. [00:13:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:13:37] Speaker C: But yes, I know many more mononayan scripts. Devnagari I do. And Spencerian. I do. I do so many. But yes, I generally prefer to practice the basics. One. [00:13:49] Speaker B: Of course. Yes. Yeah. And is that the script? Devanagari. [00:13:54] Speaker C: Devanagari. Dev Nagari. Dev Nagari. Devanagari. Yes. So Dave is God. Nagri is the place in India. It's Nagri Nagar city. [00:14:08] Speaker B: Okay. [00:14:09] Speaker C: So it, it has come from that Dev. God space. [00:14:14] Speaker B: Okay. And would you find this script in sort of religious scripts or manuscripts or is it something. Okay, so quite a traditional Indian script. That's. [00:14:27] Speaker C: You're right. Hindi is the main language in India. I mean, I mean as we say, it's a national language. So yeah, as I am in north India, so Hindi is my first language here. [00:14:40] Speaker B: Okay. [00:14:42] Speaker C: So in vienning schools, we are. Students are not aware about the English till 6th class. [00:14:48] Speaker B: Oh wow. Okay. Okay. And then so the Alphabet or the, the actual symbols for the letters, are they very different with all Those sort of 32 plus scripts? I mean. [00:15:02] Speaker C: No, I will say no because if you will see Devanagari. So Devanagari is, I mean letters made with three basic Strokes, standing line, sleeping line and an oval. So it is more like our foundational hand. [00:15:17] Speaker B: Okay. [00:15:18] Speaker C: But the angle is different. So in foundational hand we work on 45 degree. In Devi we work on left side. I mean left 45 degree, 135 we can say so I mean there is no difference. I will say. But yes, you need to understand the design of the letter sometimes like there is a design difference in the letter. So if you will see at the exemplar and if you are aware with the foundational letter, it will be easier. In fact, French roundhand is also similar to Devanagari letters. [00:15:50] Speaker B: Ah, that's interesting. [00:15:52] Speaker C: So if you look at these letters from the technical part, I mean you will easily able to figure it out that how they are we are writing them. [00:15:59] Speaker B: That's great. That's great. And I guess similar to languages that have evolved over time, you know, they've got influences from lots of different places. And do you personally have a preference? I know we talked about copper plate, but do you have a preference of what tools you use, types of nibs or pens? [00:16:18] Speaker C: Laura, this is a very common question we generally ask, right. But yes, answering to that is really like. I mean I always love this question. Yes, I enjoy working with different nibs inks if you can. I mean see it on my Instagram as well. I use so many inks. But yes, if I'll talk about nibs. Pointer pen nibs. So EF Principle is my favorite one. So EF Principle, Leonard. EF Principle. [00:16:48] Speaker A: Yes. [00:16:48] Speaker B: Yes. [00:16:48] Speaker C: So that's the one. It gives desired thin and thicker strokes. I love working on thinner hairlines more. So that is my one of the favorite nib. But Yes, I mean 22B101 and EF principle are the nibs which I generally prefer. I don't like other nibs. But yes, I mean there is one more nib if I want to mention Gelat 303 that is also one of the favorite nib. But yes, we generally don't get it in India. So that is the issue which we generally find in getting 303. But that is a. I mean amazing nib and I don't think other nibs are like that. [00:17:36] Speaker B: Yeah. And are you using oblique holder or sort of straight? [00:17:42] Speaker C: I use oblique holder as I'm right handed person. But yes, I want to try a straight holder as well. I mean I love Paul Antonio's straight holder copper plate calligraphy. I observe it a lot. But yes, I find it bit tricky. [00:17:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:58] Speaker C: So sometimes, whenever I learn from Him. I'll definitely try a straight holder. [00:18:05] Speaker B: Lovely. And what's beautiful? I guess I don't know if the stationery industry is like, I've experienced it, where there's lots of beautiful handmade ones that we can get over here. I mean, not just here, you kind of get them from all over the world. But do you have access to lots of stationery and tools over there? [00:18:26] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, we do have many Indian manufacturers for many products. Not for the nibs specifically, if I'll say. But yes, for the holders, inks, papers. [00:18:37] Speaker B: We have things big over there. Right. I always see sort of Indian ink. [00:18:41] Speaker C: And things coming through, like, I mean, there are a few brands which easily did not deliver inks properly. And before Corona it was difficult, but nowadays it is not difficult. Now people are aware which platform is giving what, and now people are aware with the tools and stationary material. So in India, initially it was difficult, everybody was not aware. There are few people who generally goes outside India. They come back with the products and everything. But yes, yeah, it was there, but not now. [00:19:16] Speaker A: If you're enjoying this episode, there are a few lovely ways to stay connected. Pop your name on my mailing list for free monthly downloads. Come and join a workshop or course. If you fancy getting creative or if you'd just like to support the podcast, you can buy us a coffee. All the links are in today's show notes. Now let's get back to the episode. [00:19:38] Speaker B: So you've got an online shop, you run workshops, you manage the calligraphy foundation and you deliver talks and you produce art for exhibition and events. Which, which, out of all of these things that you do, do you love the most? [00:19:54] Speaker C: This is an interesting question I would love to answer, but I don't know what all I could include in that. Actually, I love the diversity of activities involved in running this foundation. While it's too hard to pick one, I find joy in delivering talks and producing art of four exhibitions and events. Our annual event, Aksharmotza, is a highlight. I mean, we generally do it annually and it's a huge hair. I mean, like around 500 to 600 people participate in that. [00:20:33] Speaker B: So this is a festival. [00:20:34] Speaker C: This is a festival, kind of. You are right. And Akshar Mahotsav is. Akshar is letter. Mahotsav is festival. [00:20:40] Speaker B: Okay. Aksha Mah. [00:20:44] Speaker C: Yes. So Akshar is letter. Mahotsav is festival. [00:20:47] Speaker A: Letter festival. [00:20:48] Speaker C: Perfect. So it's letter festival. I. [00:20:51] Speaker B: You can say, yeah, not no, keep it as it is. But yeah, that's great to Know what it means? Yeah. [00:20:57] Speaker C: So where we celebrate the beauty of letters and calligraphy. We have also introduced few of the programs handwriting to calligraphy. So approaches if people will not write, they will not develop sense for the calligraphy. So this is one of the part which I personally like in the foundation where we have developed some courses for the school students. And if I'll get chance to show you my books, you will be surprised. They all are in a storytelling format for the school students. And. Yeah. So my team has prepared curriculum in which they have incorporated all the names who have done a lot for calligraphy as a history part for these school students where they can. They can be aware with the master penments of India or maybe outside who has developed those scripts. We have done it in a way that. Where students are learning from the history to scratch to the script. [00:22:05] Speaker B: Wow. [00:22:05] Speaker C: And these books are amazing. And I'm just waiting if any institution will take those books from us because our audience is school students. So school has to accept that. So we are, we are trying that way that. I mean we have developed four books. So Monoline, italic, monoline, foundational, monoline, American cursive, business cursive specifically and Devnagari. [00:22:32] Speaker B: Wow. So these books, they are for children who are maybe learning handwriting, but can also learn and understand the kind of foundations of calligraphy styles. They can be taken into schools and they are story based. [00:22:53] Speaker C: Yes. [00:22:54] Speaker B: So they are led through a kind of journey with the click. And then are they workbooks? Are they working directly in the books or are they more like reference books. [00:23:04] Speaker C: Where the children are workbook. We have decided the color as for the student, I mean school students, because they like poppy colors, the vibrant colors. And we have created, I mean we have hired few students to illustrate them. So there is an institution in India, if you are aware, National Institute of Design, we have gamified it like things in those books. So we are trying to make them interesting for the school students so that they can. They don't get bored with the writing thing because these days students don't want to write on paper. So yeah. To avoid that we have created such products. [00:23:47] Speaker B: That's great. And it's really inspiring them to learn the beauty behind creating calligraphy versus their handwriting, which might feel faster and more functional. Right. [00:23:59] Speaker C: And Laura, if we introduce like these monoline scripts to them, generally. Generally there is no provision of introducing monoline scripts to the school students. And schools are not aware that in fact it is not in the education policy as well here. So it's quite hard for Us to give such kind of curriculum to the school institutions. We don't have time for such kind of things. So in that process now we have developed it for the handwriting, but next year we. My, my team has started working on. Next year they'll be having some same kind of book for calligraphy as well. [00:24:38] Speaker B: Okay. [00:24:39] Speaker C: So it will be a complete approach to handwriting, to calligraphy for them, and will be easier. [00:24:46] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:24:46] Speaker C: So we have created separate pads, practice pads and books so both will work together. I mean, so that is how this, these products has been created and these are incredible. I mean, I'm sure it will help school students in a way that they will take interest in the letters of. I mean, it is important. I mean, as you can understand at the age of 40, when I'm talking about calligraphy, I mean, it should start from the school then only like as, as we know, Japan, China, they. They start calligraphy from the childhood only. So it's in their blood, I would say. Yeah, so it's in their blood. [00:25:30] Speaker B: And we have the same over here. You know, both my children are in primary school, so the first school and the system isn't really catered. I mean, they do learn some handwriting, but there's no. Calligraphy isn't part of it. And understanding the shapes of letters is really only introduced. What I'm frustrated with is the fact that most of the worksheets and the practices that they do are using computer fonts. So there's. That they're seeing digital fonts and then they have to try and replicate a font, which A is incredibly hard anyway, but also isn't really what handwriting does. And also they then have this struggle with kind of perfectionism because the repeated A in a word looks identical, but when they write it, it might not look identical and there might be slight differences. So I feel like it's not. There's. There's better ways to teach it. But, you know, curriculums and education systems are a whole nother subject. Right. [00:26:34] Speaker C: I'm also waiting for like government to take something like this from us because we are specially designing it for these students. Yeah, that will. [00:26:45] Speaker B: Yeah. And. And the fact that you work in partnership with the government, I hope that they, they see all the work that you're doing and, and there's. They see the value in the books that you're creating because that's a huge amount of work and all the knowledge that you've got pouring into that be passed on to new generations. [00:27:02] Speaker C: You know, Laura, I would. To Ed here, I mean, you might feel That, I mean it will be in your country as well. I was sitting with a educational, I mean some educational department ministry person in India. He was surprised to see our books, the drills, the guidelines which we have prepared for the class. They were amazed because at the director level, I mean they were not aware that such kind of techniques are also available to teach students. Every time students come, when parents come up with then my child doesn't write fast or maybe legible, but they are not understanding the root cause of it because you have never introduced them to any drill or straight line or sleeping line or maybe ovals. You have not introduced them. So he was surprised and I simply asked, I mean sir, how many times you have asked your, I mean you have taught your child to practice it like with the speed. So he said, I mean never ever. Then how can you say that, that a child should do the proper way when he has not been taught for that? Yes, how can you expect it, I mean from a children, I mean at the age of six or seven, you cannot like say that. So that is how we are as a foundation, taking it as like awareness also. I mean there is no rush. Let them draw the letters. Don't ask them to write. [00:28:35] Speaker B: Let them draw it and see the value in it. Right. Because what you're creating isn't just shapes and you know, I mean it's abstract to some extent. But then when you've got the combination and you've constructed your letters, you can do such incredible things with, with words and phrases and poetry and storytelling and there's much more that comes afterwards. [00:28:59] Speaker C: Yes. [00:28:59] Speaker B: And so what do you see for the future of calligraphy, especially in the communities that you support in India? [00:29:09] Speaker C: Laura, I envision a future where calligraphy continues to thrive in India and globally. Especially with the Indian script I would say. I mean there are people in many countries, they want to learn Indian script. In fact, Indian communities are also there, so, so they try to teach people. They are. We plan to expand our reach to other region and countries sharing the benefits of calligraphy in developing creativity, self expression and cultural appreciation. I believe that our work can inspire similar initiative worldwide. And we are excited to collaborate with like minded individuals and organizations. And that is why I accepted your invitation as well. In spite of having like issue with my preferred language. My preferred language is Hindi. I was bit nervous in starting how I'll, I'll do it because I've never given any interview in English before. But yes, we are looking for like minded individuals to collaborate organizations who, who want to promote calligraphy. As a core subject or maybe to the right knowledge, I would say. So that is our mission and we'll be able to do it because whatever we have aimed till now, we are doing it and we are happy with that as a team. Also as a, like founder of the foundation as well, we. We have achieved whatever we have aimed for. [00:30:42] Speaker B: Yeah. Incredible. And the work that you've done, how many years has the foundation been going? [00:30:47] Speaker C: So almost four years. And we started with the awareness, then we came up in the education of it. We found some loopholes where we were not finding good teachers to teach in India. As you know, we have large population here, so we will be needing more educators who can like teach in schools or maybe the private classes or institutions anywhere. I mean, where they can teach. So we, that is how we have created that course as well. I mean the teacher training program. So we have created few, few modules of history, Roman history and Indian history. I mean, as you know, there is a huge, I mean, gap between like learning as an artist or as a teacher. There is a difference in calligraphy. So it doesn't mean if you are a good artist, you will be a good teacher as well. In calligraphy, it's completely different. And if you want to be a teacher, you need to understand so many points, technical aspect or maybe market survey. I mean, where you are teaching, what type of students you will be having, every kind of like, I mean, challenge you will face if you are not aware with the pedagogical approach of it. Generally, people take it as a hobby initially. [00:32:10] Speaker B: Yes. [00:32:10] Speaker C: And then after they understand, oh no, it is not hobby. It is. It is more than that. [00:32:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:16] Speaker C: Calligraphy is not at all a hobby thing. I completely. I don't agree with this statement that it is for hobby. It is completely different for contact. And as you like, I mean, I would say, like for becoming an accountant, you learn, you study accountancy. For calligraphy, you need to learn. I mean, you need to study calligraphy as well. And there are good references on archives.org or I am pet or Indian market is also having some good books to read. And I think there is a good source. I mean, people nowadays have a lot to like, they have good resources to learn if they want to learn properly. [00:32:59] Speaker B: Yeah, there's great access. [00:33:00] Speaker C: Yes. [00:33:00] Speaker B: Isn't there? All over. All over the world. It's, it's brilliant, but incredible that you're supporting the teachers as well and making sure that the education that you're delivering is at the, at a standard that is also making sure that all those Gaps are filled. So, you know, one teacher might teach in a certain way, but they need to cover the same. [00:33:20] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:33:21] Speaker B: Information in the module, it is important. [00:33:22] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:33:23] Speaker B: Students are coming out with the same, you know, results. Do you know how many students you've taught? [00:33:30] Speaker C: I mean, as of number, I mean, as you know, I mean like our program is already, I mean around one year old now. So in first batch we had around 16 students. I mean we select them actually and there is a criteria to select them. And this year we have around 12 students. We are not, I mean, focused on numbers basically because we want to create those who are interested in teaching. We are taking them into the course. [00:33:55] Speaker B: Got you. [00:33:55] Speaker C: So we don't want to force this course to the people, I mean those who want to take it as a hobby because yes, we have prized it in a way and in fact, I mean it. I mean, if you will see the reviews from first batch, you will find they are feeling like they have gone back to the school and they're practicing every day. They are taking classes and everyday homework, then projects, then you have to create all your portfolios and everything. So we are, we are covering so many things for them in that course. That is not only the simple like learning thing, we are teaching them to teach. Yeah, there is a difference. [00:34:36] Speaker B: Yeah. As a legacy. [00:34:37] Speaker C: Yes. As a behind it. [00:34:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Love. [00:34:40] Speaker C: Love. That is how we are providing that certificate to them. Otherwise we are not providing the certificates like we, we told them that you have to work hard to earn this certificate. [00:34:51] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's a, it's a qualification of, of all their hard work afterwards. Right. So that they can, they can create this incredible work moving forward as well. So gosh, thank you so much. So to find out more about Recognita work and the foundation, the calligraphyfoundation.com is the website and you can follow and connect with her as well at Raginita Gupta on Instagram. But we'll put all the links in today's episode episodes show notes. But really just I wanted to say a huge thank you for joining me today. I know we've had technical hitches and all sorts of things up against us, but even from, you know, London all the way over to India, managed New Delhi. Yeah, we've been, managed to connect. So it's been incredible talking to you and hearing all about the foundation's work and what you're doing and how this ripple effect will begin to unravel across hopefully the world and we'll all get hugely inspired by what you're doing. [00:35:56] Speaker C: Thank you so much, Laura. And it was wonderful connecting with you. That was, that was something which touched my heart, actually. Thank you so much. I mean, for having me. This is the first time when I'm giving interview, so again, I've put you. [00:36:10] Speaker B: On the spot and you were brilliant. And can I say, you know, it's, it's beautiful hearing you talking about all the work that you do, and it's lovely to be able to, to share voices from all over the world. So thank you for being. [00:36:24] Speaker C: You're doing wonderful. Thank you so much. [00:36:26] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:36:30] Speaker A: Thanks for listening to the Life of Letters. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow or subscribe wherever you get your podcast so you don't miss the rest of the series. If you can, leave a quick review that really helps the podcast reach more ears. And if you're enjoying these conversations, please consider buying us a coffee to help keep the episodes coming. All the details are in the show. Notes, notes. Finally, once again, a big thank you to Speedball Arts for supporting this season and for being part of my calligraphy journey from the very start. Until next time, keep writing, keep creating, and keep celebrating the life of Letters.